Where is Cambodia headed now that a National Assembly is to adopt a constitution and a coalition government has been formed? Khuon Sundary is the deputy editor of Pracheachun, the daily newspaper of the Cambodian People's Party (CPP). She was interviewed in Phnom Penh for 91×ÔÅÄÂÛ̳ Weekly by HELEN JARVIS.
What's your assessment of the political situation now?
There are some positive and optimistic factors about the present situation. Because after the elections the majority of the Cambodian people were frightened about what was going to happen.
There were a lot of people who did not accept the results of the elections. That is to say, the voters, even if they did not like the CPP, never thought the CPP would lose the elections. The conflicts between the different factions were very deep and complicated, so when FUNCINPEC won and the CPP lost — not by the reality of the people but by the tricks of UNTAC or the big powers — it was unacceptable.
There was very deep conflict between the two parties, so we never imagined that after the elections these two parties would be able to work together. Before the SNC [Supreme National Council] meeting on June 10, the leader of FUNCINPEC said he couldn't work with Prime Minister Hun Sen and that Hun Sen would be held responsible for the deaths of FUNCINPEC members during the campaign.
Hun Sen, in my view, was the key person in paving a way out of the complex situation towards peace. Even though Prince Sihanouk is a sacred figure for the people, you must understand that the real power and force in the country relied on the CPP.
Before the SNC meeting on June 10, the atmosphere was hopeless. You could feel the whole country was in disorder. Everybody wanted to leave the country and in the communes and the villages, in the countryside, the conflict was very dangerous. Because when UNTAC proclaimed who had won, the FUNCINPEC people started to come and claim authority. For example, at Battambang they came and tried to tell the local leaders that they had to move out of their offices. CPP village chiefs and other local leaders had to sleep in different houses every night for their own safety.
So the whole country expected there would be a civil war or a coup. For me, June 14 is a historic day, when the factions agreed to work together for the interests
The party that lost through such unfair methods cannot accept to be completely pushed out, but if FUNCINPEC continues to be a little clever and tolerant, and if they are willing to work with the CPP for the interests of the people and the country, everything can be settled.
To lead the country you need an apparatus and a base of support. For example, UNTAC promised to give money to pay the army, police and civil servants, but for three months we got no money from them. So the problems of the Khmer people will have to be solved by ourselves, but if they are not reconciled we will not be able to.
If FUNCINPEC suddenly starts throwing out the chiefs of the provinces, then the situation will change again. Any changes in the provincial governments will have to be done step by step, looking at the real situation in each province. Do you think FUNCINPEC has enough people to take over these posts? FUNCINPEC was unprepared to win the election, just as the CPP was not ready to lose. It's not easy to replace these people; they must know the local people and the situation and be respected by the local people.
Do you think the election outcome is a good indication of how people in Cambodia think?
I know that the CPP had lost some popularity, but not that much. At least 60% still supported the party. A lot of irregularities happened during the elections. We knew that as soon as UNTAC set foot in this country we would have to face that sort of thing. But we had no other choice. We tried our best to make do with the lesser of the unfavourable options. Take for example the media. They left the other party publications alone, but they came to Pracheachun and said you must do this and you mustn't do that. They demanded to know the proof for the things we said and they told us not to be so critical of FUNCINPEC.
For example, the attack on Stung earlier this year: everybody knew the FUNCINPEC army was involved — they knew the names of the army chiefs who were involved. A FUNCINPEC officer himself said that he had cooperated with the Khmer Rouge in order to get rid of the Vietnamese. I issued a statement about this and then the representative of UNTAC media came to see me and said there was no proof.
They tried to tell us that we should stop supporting the CPP. I said it's very funny that all the other parties should have the right to have their own newspaper. It's normal, I told them, for the CPP newspaper to support the CPP.
But when UNTAC put their hands on this country we knew already what to expect. We had seen similar events in Nicaragua and Angola.
Can you tell me more about the election irregularities?
There were many irregularities that ordinary people saw as well as those that were reported officially by the party. When many people turned up to vote on May 23 it was not properly organised, the booths were not arranged properly and people could see who others were voting for.
Most of the Cambodian staff at the polling booths were from the [refugee] camps because UNTAC always hired people from the camps. UNTAC said they could speak English and they needed jobs. I don't say they are bad people, but they are not usually neutral.
On the 23rd, the first day of the election, in Phnom Penh alone there were 20 ballot boxes reported broken. We had asked for a paper with the party seal, and the seal of other parties if they were interested, to be placed over the boxes and sealed with wax to ensure that they were not opened. But they just used paper that they had printed themselves, so it would have been very easy for them to print as many as they liked.
I have a friend who is the deputy chief of Takeo province. She said that she went around the polling stations and that when she saw some of the things going on she nearly fainted. She said there would be one CPP scrutineer trying to watch the counting at more than one table for a whole day and often as soon as they turned their backs on one table the counters would start placing CPP votes in the FUNCINPEC pile.
Or there were bunches of unfolded ballot papers tipped out of a box. [Ballots had to be folded to fit through the slot in the ballot box, so an unfolded ballot must have been placed in the box at some earlier time.] The scrutineer would try to call someone to look, but in the meantime they would just keep on emptying the boxes on top of the disputed papers, so they were lost. And there were problems because so few of the foreigners could speak Khmer.
In the rural areas we generally knew beforehand who would vote for each party,. So when we opened the boxes and found vote after vote for FUNCINPEC we were very surprised.
When I talked to my friend about UNTAC fiddling the election, she said, "No, they didn't fiddle it; they stole it". Churches from America and Canada have said there were very big irregularities.
Now the important thing is not to call for the suspension of the elections but to let the world know about this and make it known how much the Cambodian people paid for this experience.
After a new constitution has been declared, will the coalition continue?
I don't think FUNCINPEC will try to do away with the coalition because now that Ranariddh is actually in the government he can see just how big the problems really are. It is clear that Hun Sen is the only one who has a real grasp on the problems. For example the problem of people occupying public lands and claiming them back. All Ranariddh says is, "We will ask foreign companies to come and invest in our country and build industries and then they will build many flats and we will let them to the people at very low prices".
Now we have 300,000 people with no shelter, and the problem will grow.
So I don't think Ranariddh will want to let the government fail. If they do try to break the coalition, then within a week the government will fail.
What agreements has FUNCINPEC made with the Khmer Rouge? What does the CPP think of the proposal for including the KR in the new national army?
We all know very well that the KR's position is much better than before they signed the Paris Accords and joined the SNC. Pol Pot is still Pol Pot and he won't change. As Prince Norodom Sihanouk says, you mustn't expect that they will change. The only thing that Pol Pot tries is to build power.
I don't think the KR will agree to join the army without joining the government. That is only a pressure in order to try to get a place in the government.
Are there divisions in the KR?
I don't think so. They have many legs: one for politics, one for the army, one for sabotage and so on. They are very well organised, and some people always are used only for diplomatic missions and projects. So when people ask Khieu Samphan why the KR attacked Prea Vihear, he can say, "Oh I don't know". They never accept responsibility, but in reality they are in the same family.
Are the KR weak now because of the election results?
Yes, because with only military means they cannot win. So far they have had to rely on others. Maybe they never expected this situation. They thought that if FUNCINPEC won, they would also win.
Sihanouk's role is important because people still believe and listen to him. It's difficult too. But in the situation we need an arbitrator. Without such a figure how could Ranariddh and Hun Sen be brought together? This is the mentality of the people.
He wants to build a bridge linking the times before the coup d'etat in 1970 to now.