Update: Since this interveiw was published by . President Trump has recognized Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaid贸 as interim president, calling democratically elected President Maduro 鈥渋llegitimate.鈥 In response, Venezuela has cut diplomatic ties with the U.S., giving diplomats 72 hours to leave the country.
The United States and allied nations in Latin America are ratcheting up pressure on Venezuela in what appears to be a coordinated effort to remove Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro from office. Maduro was sworn in last week to a second 6-year term following his victory in last May鈥檚 election, which was boycotted by the opposition. Days before Maduro was sworn in, opposition figure Juan Guaid贸 became head of the National Assembly, which soon voted to declare Maduro a 鈥渦surper鈥 in an effort to remove him from office. The United States, Brazil and other nations have welcomed the effort. As the political crisis intensifies, Maduro has reached out to the United Nations to help establish a peace dialogue in Venezuela.
In the clip below, Democracy Now! speaks with Jorge Arreaza, Venezuelan foreign minister. He met with U.N. Secretary-General Ant贸nio Guterres this week. The transcript follow.
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听This is听Democracy Now!听I鈥檓 Amy Goodman. The United States and allied nations in Latin America are ratcheting up pressure on Venezuela in what appears to be a coordinated effort to remove Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro from office. Maduro was sworn in last week to a second 6-year term following his victory in last May鈥檚 election, which was boycotted by the opposition. Days before Maduro was sworn in, opposition figure Juan Guaid贸 became head of the National Assembly, which soon voted to declare Maduro a 鈥渦surper鈥 in an effort to remove him from office.
The United States, Brazil and other nations have welcomed the effort. Vice President Mike Pence tweeted, the U.S. 鈥渟trongly supports the courageous decision by Juan Guaid贸鈥 to 鈥渄eclare the country鈥檚 presidency vacant.鈥 On the day of Maruro鈥檚 inauguration, January 10th, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called Guaid贸 to congratulate him on his election victory to head the National Assembly. Then, national security adviser John Bolton announced, quote, 鈥淭he United States does not recognize Venezuelan dictator Nicol谩s Maduro鈥檚 illegitimate claim to power,鈥 unquote. Brazil, now led by the far-right President Jair Bolsonaro, has gone a step further by saying it recognizes Juan Guaid贸 as the rightful president of Venezuela, even though Guaid贸 himself hasn鈥檛 even claimed that title. A group of Latin American countries known as the Lima Group also recently voted to not recognize the legitimacy of Maduro鈥檚 presidency. Mexico was the sole dissenter.
The U.S.-led effort targeting the oil-rich nation of Venezuela dates back two decades, since the late Hugo Ch谩vez became president in 1999. In November, John Bolton accused Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua of being part of a 鈥渢roika of tyranny.鈥 In September,听The New York Times听reported the Trump administration conducted secret meetings with rebellious military officers in Venezuela to discuss overthrowing Maduro. In August, Maduro survived an assassination attempt when he was attacked by a small drone. He accused the U.S. and Colombia of being involved in the plot. In 2017, President Donald Trump said he could not rule out a, quote, 鈥渕ilitary option鈥 to deal with Venezuela.
All of this comes as Venezuela is facing a staggering economic crisis, caused in part by falling oil prices and broad U.S. sanctions. According to the听IMF, inflation is over 1 million percent in the last year, the highest rate in the world. There are widespread reports of food and medicine shortages. The United Nations estimates 3 million Venezuelans have left Venezuela since 2015, resulting in what the U.N. has described as an 鈥渦nprecedented migration crisis鈥 in Latin America.
As the political turmoil intensifies, Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro has reached out to the United Nations to help establish a peace dialogue in Venezuela. Venezuela鈥檚 foreign minister, Jorge Arreaza, met this week with U.N. Secretary-General Ant贸nio Guterres here in New York.
On Thursday, I had a chance to interview Foreign Minister Arreaza, who has served as foreign minister for the past three years. From 2013 to '16, he served as Venezuela's vice president. I began by asking him if he believes Venezuela is being set up for a coup.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Of course. It鈥檚 evident. And you see this man, who nobody knows in Venezuela鈥攜ou ask in the streets, 鈥淲ho is Juan Guaid贸?鈥 and nobody knows him鈥攂ut he鈥檚 being pushed to say that he is the new president, by the U.S. He hasn鈥檛 said that, but Pompeo says it, Almagro from the听OAS听says it, and other presidents say that now he鈥檚 the president. They are trying to push a political conflict in Venezuela. They are calling the armed forces to make pronunciations against President Maduro. That鈥檚 what they want, a coup d鈥櫭﹖at in Venezuela. They want a war in Venezuela. And it鈥檚 not going to happen.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, let鈥檚 talk more about what you believe is the role of the United States in coalescing opposition to Maduro.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听They are the bosses of the opposition. They tell them what to do. Nothing that the opposition does is without the permission or authorization of the State Department, at least, here in the United States. And they confess this. They say, 鈥淲e have to make consultations with the embassy. We have to make consultations with the Department of State.鈥 It happens. I mean, they are not free. They are not independent.
But in spite of all of that, the president is trying to sit, again, with the opposition鈥攚ith the democratic opposition, not the extremist opposition that makes violent demonstrations and burns people alive, no? And that is what he鈥檚 going to insist, on the dialogue. But this, what is happening now鈥擩ohn Bolton tweeting and doing communiqu茅s, and Pompeo and everyone saying that Maduro is not the president, that he鈥檚 illegitimate, that he鈥檚 a usurper鈥攃ome on, that is a coup d鈥櫭﹖at, again, against Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Well, explain that term, a 鈥渦surper.鈥 I mean, it looks like, you know, a case is being built for an overthrow, when he, when Guaid贸, the opposition, the head of the National Assembly, announces that Maduro is a usurper.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听I mean, they are manipulating the Venezuela Constitution. They say that the elections, where almost 10 million Venezuelans voted and more than 6 million voted for Maduro, that this didn鈥檛 happen. No?
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听The opposition boycotted?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, they boycotted it鈥攏ot only the opposition, Washington and Bogot谩 and Lima and Santiago, these governments鈥攏o?鈥搉eoliberal governments in Latin America. So, they said, when the elections were conveyed, three months before the elections, they said they鈥檙e going to be a fraud, and they wouldn鈥檛 recognize the results. And then they pressed the potential candidates of the opposition not to register. And when some of them registered, they pressed them to retire, to withdraw. And they didn鈥檛. And now they say that because the elections were a fraud, then there鈥檚 no president of Venezuela, so the president of the National Assembly has to be the new president. And all these governments and the U.S. government are encouraging this thesis. So, it鈥檚 very dangerous.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听I want to continue on what the U.S. is doing. In November, national security adviser John Bolton claimed Venezuela was part of a 鈥渢roika of tyranny.鈥
听
JOHN听BOLTON:听The troika of tyranny in this hemisphere鈥擟uba, Venezuela and Nicaragua鈥攈as finally met its match. In Venezuela, the United States is acting against the dictator Maduro, who uses the same oppressive tactics that have been employed in Cuba for decades. He has installed an illegitimate Constituent Assembly, debased the currency for political gain and forced his people to sign up for a corrupt food distribution service or face certain starvation.
听
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听In December, Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro accused U.S. national security adviser John Bolton of leading a plan to invade Venezuela.
听
PRESIDENT听NICOL脕S听MADURO:听[translated] Today, I come out once again to denounce the plot set forth by the U.S. to destroy Venezuela鈥檚 democracy, to assassinate me and to impose a dictatorship in Venezuela. Mr. John Bolton has been assigned, once again, as the chief of a plot to fill Venezuela with violence and to seek a foreign military intervention鈥攁 coup鈥攁ssassinate President Maduro and impose what they call a transitory government.
听
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Foreign Minister, can you elaborate on this and also this term 鈥渢roika of tyranny,鈥 very much reminiscent of George W. Bush鈥檚 鈥渁xis of evil鈥?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, the 鈥渁xis of evil,鈥 no? And it鈥檚 reminiscent of the language used in the Cold War鈥擭ixon, McCarthy, all that dark history, no? And it has no sense. We鈥檙e in the 21st century. You have to respect the sovereign nations. We have the right to build our own model, democratic model. And, yes, the United States government, especially the obsession of Bolton, of John Bolton, against President Maduro, they are behind everything that is happening in Venezuela. Yes, they almost killed, assassinated President Maduro August the 4th with drones. And it鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Well, let鈥檚 talk about this. This was the first drone attack, attempted assassination, on a head of state in history.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听August 4th, it was a Saturday. It was in front of the Palace of Justice.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Maduro was giving a speech. And explain exactly what happened.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听What happened is that suddenly a drone appeared, and it exploded.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Were you there?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听I wasn鈥檛 there. But most of the ministers were there, and the military forces were there, and the other branches of power were there. And it was two drones. These people were trained in Colombia. We told鈥攚e gave this information to the Colombian government. We gave them the place where they were trained, the people who were involved, the names of the people, of the officials of migration that led them across to Venezuela with the drones. We gave the U.S. government the information about these people in Miami, who met there and also were part of this plot against President Maduro. And nothing happened.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Well, before it, in April, at the Latin American summit in Lima, Peru, Vice President Mike Pence said more must be done to isolate Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro.
听
VICE听PRESIDENT听MIKE听PENCE:听We must all stand with our brothers and sisters suffering in Venezuela. And I can promise you the United States will not rest, we will not relent, until democracy is restored in Venezuela and the Venezuelan people reclaim their birthright of libertad.
听
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, that鈥檚 Vice President Mike Pence. In June, Venezuelan President Nicol谩s Maduro called U.S. Vice President Mike Pence a 鈥渧iper鈥 and vowed to defeat what he called Washington鈥檚 attempts to force him from power.
听
PRESIDENT听NICOL脕S听MADURO:听[translated] Every time the poisonous viper of Mike Pence opens his mouth, I feel stronger, clearer of what the road is. The road is ours. It is Venezuelan. It is not the one Mike Pence points out to us, not 20 poisonous snakes, not 20 vipers like Mike Pence.
听
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Foreign Minister Arreaza, explain. Why鈥攚hat is Mike Pence鈥檚 particular interest here? You鈥檙e looking at Pence, Bolton鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Bolton.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听鈥攁nd Pompeo, now secretary of state.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Pompeo, as well. You know, Pence, you know, he鈥檚 a religious guy. He鈥檚 from the extreme right. You know him. And he鈥檚 obsessed, as well, with the Venezuelan revolution.
You see they say that you have to restore democracy in Venezuela. We have a democracy. We have had 25 elections in 20 years. We鈥檝e had elections for president in 1998, in 2000, 2004, 2006, in 2009, 2012, 2013, 2018. I mean, our people are used to鈥攁nd not only democracy, because the Constitution says you have to elect these presidents and parliament members and mayors and governors; no, because we have鈥攐ur society is organized in community councils鈥consejos comunales鈥攁nd communes, and you take the decisions. Every single day, Venezuelans are exercising democracy. We have democratized the access to education, which was being privatized before the revolution. We have democratized access to housing, which was also exclusive for the rich before the revolution. We have democratized access to health. We have doctors all over鈥攖hey used to be Cubans, now they鈥檙e Venezuelans鈥攁ll over the country. You walk one block, and you have the doctor there. So, we are really trying to build a root democracy, rooted in the people. And that is what they don鈥檛 like, because that is not what they would like from the countries of Latin America.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听I want to talk about sanctions and the effect they鈥檙e having on the Venezuelan economy. You have Henry Kissinger, still an elder statesmen, consulted by Democrats and Republicans alike. Let鈥檚 go back half a century, go back decades. He wanted to make the Chilean economy under Allende scream, he said.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听You have the half-century embargo against Cuba. What does economic pressure鈥攅conomic sabotage, if you will鈥攍ook like in Venezuela? In November, the Congressional Research Service published a short听听of current U.S. sanctions in Venezuela and mentions the Trump administration is considering a new wave of sanctions. But the report also states, quote, 鈥淎lthough stronger economic sanctions could influence the Venezuelan government鈥檚 behavior, they also could have negative effects and unintended consequences. Analysts are concerned that stronger sanctions could exacerbate Venezuela鈥檚 difficult humanitarian situation, which has been marked by shortages of food and medicines, increased poverty, and mass migration. Many Venezuelan civil society groups oppose sanctions that could worsen humanitarian conditions.鈥 Now, again, this is not the Venezuelan president saying this; this is the U.S. Congressional Research Service. Can you talk about the effect of U.S. sanctions on Venezuela?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听The Venezuelan people are suffering because of these so-called sanctions, which are cohesive, unilateral measures. This is not approved by the United Nations Security Council. It has no legality. These are decisions taken by one government unilaterally to impose a blockade against Venezuela so it鈥檚 difficult for us to import food, to import medicine. We cannot use the dollar as a currency to exchange. We have to switch. Only this switching from dollars to euros is more than what we need to invest in, in importing the vaccines for our children or the treatment for听HIV听in Venezuela for two years. And it鈥檚 probably鈥攖he figure that I can give you is more than $20,000 million that we have lost because of the so-called sanctions in more than a year.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, these sanctions are overt. Are there covert sanctions against Venezuela?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Of course, because it鈥檚 not only this, that is official. It鈥檚 pressing the companies not to work with Venezuela. It鈥檚 threatening to seize a company that we have here in the United States, Citgo. We cannot repatriate the profit from our company in the United States to invest it in food and medicine in Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And for people to know, Citgo, which is Venezuelan state oil company鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Owned, yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听鈥攈as been used for many years in the United States to support poor people鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听鈥攊n their programs for鈥攖o have oil in the winter.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes. And we intend to keep on using it for this in the United States. But most of the profit annually should be sent to Venezuela, and we cannot do it. It has to be here in the banks of the United States, blocked. We have more than $1,600 million or euros blocked in Europe in this company, intermediary鈥攊t鈥檚 called Euroclear. Why? Because of the sanctions.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听You mentioned Russia. On Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov expressed concerns over U.S. meddling in Venezuela.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
听
SERGEY听LAVROV:听[translate] We have heard talk that allows for military involvement in Venezuela, talk that the United States will now recognize as the president of Venezuela not Nicol谩s Maduro, but the representative of the parliament. All this is very alarming. And all this shows is that the approach of undermining governments the United States doesn鈥檛 like stays on as a priority of their activity in Latin America and in other regions.
听
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听If you can talk about the significance of Lavrov weighing in, also the latest news, in December, Russia landing two nuclear-capable Blackjack bombers in Venezuela as part of a joint training exercise?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听You know, Russia has been friends of Venezuela for over 16 years. We believe that the world has to have several poles, several centers, not only the United States. The United States cut all the military cooperation with Venezuela 20 years ago. And we have military cooperation with Russia. And these planes, aircrafts, that came this year, they came in 2013, as well, and nothing happened. But this year it was taken like it was that we were trying to bomb the U.S. And, come on, that鈥檚 nonsense. We have the right to have cooperation with Russia, with China, with whatever country in the world. And what Lavrov said there is exactly what the United States is doing. And he knows that they are trying to manipulate the people, the media, the Constitution of Venezuela even, to impose a man who has not been elected president.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza. We鈥檒l be back with him in 30 seconds.
[break]
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听This is听Democracy Now!, democracynow.org,听The War and Peace Report. I鈥檓 Amy Goodman, as we continue with my interview with the Venezuelan foreign minister, Jorge Arreaza.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听You have massive flight from Venezuela. The U.N. high commissioner for refugees has called the ongoing Venezuelan migration crisis 鈥渦nprecedented鈥 in Latin America. The U.N. estimates about 3 million Venezuelans have left since 2015. Another 2 million are projected to leave this year. About a million of them are living in Colombia; half a million in Peru, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile, Panama, Brazil鈥攁ll have large numbers. Why, Foreign Minister Arreaza, are so many people, so many Venezuelans, leaving?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Well, first, it鈥檚 not鈥攜ou know how many Colombians live in Venezuela? Six million Colombians live in Venezuela. Over鈥擯eruvians and Ecuadoreans, over 1 million. Spaniards, Italians, Portuguese, Arabs, over 2 million.
So, of course there is migration at the moment, because we are blocked, because it鈥檚 difficult to find medicine, to find some products of food, and the hyperinflation process, with an exchange rate, Amy, that is not set by the national authorities in Venezuela, by the central bank, it鈥檚 set by webpages in Miami, you know? The exchange rate the day before Maduro鈥檚 inauguration was $1, 1,000 bol铆vares, which is crazy. Well, the day of the inauguration, it duplicated. It was 2,000 bol铆vares for $1. And that has no economic logic. That is all political. That is warfare. That is using the currency against our own people.
So, we are worried, of course, because there are鈥攊t鈥檚 not 3 million Venezuelans. It鈥檚 probably 1 million Venezuelans. And most of the people that have gone to Colombia are Colombians that live in Venezuela and that have gone back to their country. And we are willing them to come back to Venezuela. That鈥檚 what we want, for the Venezuelans and the Colombians that lived in Venezuela to come back to Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听But the economy, inflation over a million percent last year鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yeah, but that鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听鈥攖he highest rate in the world?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听That鈥檚 the figure of the听IMF. That鈥檚 not the exact鈥攖hat鈥檚 not the figure at all. It鈥檚 probably 10 times less than that. It鈥檚 a very difficult problem. But this inflation is induced from abroad. It is produced by these webpages and all this warfare, economic warfare, against Venezuela. It is not only because we have not taken some measures in Venezuela. Of course it鈥檚 not. And it makes things very difficult for the Venezuelan people.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, food and medicine shortages. Do you feel that your government, the Maduro government, takes some responsibility for what鈥檚 taking place?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Of course. We are not perfect, as the government here is not perfect at all, and the government in Argentina is not perfect. Of course we have responsibilities. But most of the problem, the vast majority of the problems, in Venezuela are caused by the blockade, are caused by the warfare, economic warfare, against Venezuela.
And in spite of all of that, we are in a better situation today than we were in 2016. There is more food. There is more medicine. There鈥檚 more鈥攖he employment is under 6鈥攗nemployment is under 6 percent. And many things. I mean, we have not closed one school, one university, one hospital. We have not expelled the Cuban doctors, because we have to protect our people. We have delivered more than 2,000,500 houses to our people in the last four years. And that is investment that we have made, in spite of the sanctions, in spite of the blockade against Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, let me ask you about Human Rights Watch and the Venezuelan听NGO听Foro Penal recently releasing a听听accusing Venezuelan intelligence and security forces of detaining and torturing military personnel accused of plotting against the government. The report claims, quote, 鈥淪ome detainees were subjected to egregious abuses that amount to torture to force them to provide information about alleged conspiracies.鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听That鈥檚 psychological warfare against Venezuela. Of course there are detainees that were in plots last year to overthrow President Maduro. But no one is torturing them. This happened in the last century in Venezuela. We were used to torture. We were used to students being killed in the streets every week. We were used to repression. That stopped with the Bolivarian Revolution. It doesn鈥檛 happen anymore. But these NGOs are paid also by the听USAID听and by the government of the United States, and they say what they have to say because they are paid.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So, I want to ask you about other leaders in Latin America. On the one hand, you have Brazil鈥檚 far-right president now, Jair Bolsonaro, and Argentina鈥檚 President Mauricio Macri meeting to discuss joint opposition to the Venezuelan government. And then you have the newly elected president of Mexico,听AMLO, Andr茅s Manuel L贸pez Obrador, who is not joining with these other countries who are opposing Venezuela. But first talk about the Macri-Bolsonaro alliance and what that means, joining with the U.S.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes. As I told you, it鈥檚鈥攊n Latin America, it鈥檚 like a company, you know, a corporation. Trump is the听CEO听of a corporation, and these presidents, who are businessmen, are his directors. And they want to be promoted by President Trump, so they have to do鈥攖hey have to follow the orders. And they have been said that they have to isolate Maduro, that they have to not recognize Maduro鈥檚 government, and they have to do what the United States says so, in order to overthrow Maduro. And that鈥檚 what they鈥檙e doing.
Of course, we are worried about Brazil, because this man is far on the right. It鈥檚 fascism again. It鈥檚 what we felt, that what we believed to have disappeared from the Latin American history, it鈥檚 happening again. This man hates women. This man hates the black population. This man hates the homosexual community. This man hates Venezuelans. He鈥檚 a racist. We are worried about Brazil. He hates the poor. But鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And loves the Brazilian鈥攆ormer Brazilian military dictatorship.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, he loves the dictatorship.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And what does it mean to you that听AMLO, the president of Mexico, Andr茅s Manuel L贸pez Obrador鈥攖he stance he has taken in support of Venezuela?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听I believe that the president of Mexico is right. We have to respect each other. We have to respect the principles of international law. I mean, if you join the United Nations, it鈥檚 because you respect the internal affairs of the other states. It鈥檚 because you respect the equality of states. It鈥檚 because you don鈥檛 have the right to interfere in other nations. That鈥檚 not what the United States does. They have done wars in Iraq. President Trump said that he regretted鈥攚e regretted that the United States invaded Iraq, because now the situation is worse than it was with Saddam Hussein. And the same in Libya.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And yet you see the same thing happening and, of course, a very serious similarity. You have George W. Bush coining the term, or his people writing the term and him saying it in 2002, 鈥渁xis of evil,鈥 which set up the foundation for the invasion of Iraq. And then you have the U.S. talking about the 鈥渢roika of tyranny.鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And the similarities between Iraq and Venezuela are three letters: oil. And interestingly, many years ago, the original name of the invasion of Iraq was going to be Operation Iraqi Liberation, but they realized the acronym was听OIL, and they had to change it. That was the United States. But what about this similarity, this resource, focusing on countries that are, you know, the world鈥檚 most important oil providers?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听I am sure that if in Venezuela we only had bananas, none of this intervention would be happening. But we have oil. We have gas. We have gold. We have silver. We have bauxite. We have iron. We have water. I mean, Venezuela is a very rich, wealthy nation. And that is why we are鈥攖hey want to rule the country again, as they did until 1998. They want to have control of the Venezuelan resources. And that is why they are so obsessed to overthrow Maduro, because they want to have these resources for the development of capitalism here in the United States.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听What do you think this coup will look like if it takes place?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Well, first of all, it cannot take place, because we have to defend our Constitution, and we have to defend the peace of the Venezuelan people. And the military forces in Venezuela are aligned with the Constitution. They support the Constitution. And as a consequence of that, they support the legitimate president, who is Nicol谩s Maduro. No doubt about it. So it won鈥檛 happen.
But what they would like to happen is that some militaries say that Maduro is not the president anymore, and then that they will appoint this young fellow, Guaid贸, as president, with no constitutional support. And then they will have control of听PDVSA, of the oil of Venezuela鈥攜ou said it: the oil. They will have control of the companies of Venezuela, of the resources, the gold and everything. And they believe that is possible. That鈥檚 not possible, not in Venezuela. Maybe in some other country, but not in Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听I鈥檓 looking at a tweet that just came over, from Florida Senator Marco Rubio. He says, 鈥淲e must support those members of military in #Venezuela who have announced they will defend the constitution and recognize Guaid贸 as legitimate interim President.鈥 That鈥檚 the president of the National Assembly.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes. You know that those are supposed to be military people. They live in Peru. They don鈥檛 live in Venezuela. That鈥檚 part鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听You鈥檙e talking about the picture he tweeted out鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes. That鈥檚 a video.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听鈥攐f military men.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听That鈥檚 a video that last night came, and it鈥檚 supposed to be Venezuelan militaries, who live in Peru. I mean, that鈥檚 part of the show. They are probably paid, maybe by the Peruvian government. I don鈥檛 know. They are in the Peruvian TV. But that鈥檚 not happening in Venezuela. That鈥檚 what Marco Rubio wants, that this were to happen in Venezuela, that the military were to announce that they don鈥檛 recognize President Maduro. That鈥檚 not going to happen. And if it were to happen, a small group, we are ready for any scenario. But that鈥檚鈥攖hey want a coup d鈥櫭﹖at in Venezuela. That鈥檚 a good proof of what Bolton, Pence and Trump and Marco Rubio want for Venezuela.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Well, let me ask you about the issue of press freedom in Venezuela.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听In December, the 75-year-old newspaper听El Nacionalpublished its last issue. It was the largest remaining opposition newspaper publishing in Venezuela. The Committee to Protect Journalists reported the closure was due to restrictions that the government imposed on access to newsprint. According to听CPJ, over 20 Venezuelan publications have been forced out of print due to government restrictions on newsprint. Natalie Southwick of听CPJ听said, quote, 鈥淭he disappearance of听El Nacional's print edition is the latest casualty of the Venezuelan government's ever-expanding campaign to silence critical reporting and limit the voices of independent media in the country.鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听You know, before all this economical trouble and problems we have, we used to subsidize the import of paper for the newspapers. And now it鈥檚 the private newspapers that have to import their own newspaper, and it鈥檚 more expensive. So, that鈥檚 what happened to听El Nacional.
But听El Nacional鈥攜ou can check the social networks. You can check Twitter. You can put in Google鈥攜ou can google 鈥渒ill Maduro,鈥 鈥matar a Maduro,鈥 鈥maldito Maduro,鈥 and it鈥檚 all over all the media in Venezuela鈥攖he radio stations, newspapers, TV broadcasting channels of the opposition. Probably 70 percent of the media in Venezuela, which is private, is against the government and encouraging all these situations to happen, because they are owned by the wealthy families, traditional wealthy families of Venezuela. But, I mean, that鈥檚 part of the show, saying that in Venezuela there is no free press and freedom of speech.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听But what about the shutting down of this almost two dozen papers?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听That鈥檚 not true.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听El Nacional听is not鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听They鈥檙e bankrupt. They don鈥檛 have enough money. They don鈥檛 sell enough newspaper in order to have money to import their own paper.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听For a non-Venezuelan audience, how would you define the Bolivarian Revolution? I mean, you are the foreign minister under Maduro. You鈥檙e also the son-in-law of Hugo Ch谩vez. Talk about that history.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听The history of the Bolivarian Revolution is a process of independence, of giving back the people their rights, of guaranteeing that the people have access to health, to education, to housing, to culture, to their national identity, to their sovereignty. That is the Venezuelan revolution, democratizing our society, really democratizing the human rights in Venezuela. That is what we鈥檙e trying to do, using the wealth of the oil and the other natural resources to invest it in the people, for the people, as Abraham Lincoln said. That鈥檚 our mean, that鈥檚 our goal. That鈥檚 what happened.
But because those resources are not for the U.S., are not for other interests in the world, they are trying to overthrow President Ch谩vez and then President Maduro. And they will continue. President Maduro would like to have a conversation with President Trump. And it would probably solve some issues, because I am sure that when they鈥攊f they were to talk and see each other to the eyes, they would see that they can coexist, and they can fulfill some agreements between them. But there鈥檚 no way. I haven鈥檛 been able to have a meeting with鈥攏ot with Pompeo, who is like a minister of foreign affairs, no? With no one in the State Department. They don鈥檛 want to have dialogue with the Venezuelan authorities. What鈥檚 that? That鈥檚 uncivilized.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Final question, and this is about the International Criminal Court. In September, Argentina, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Peru called on the听ICC听to investigate Venezuela. Human Rights Watch hailed the move, saying, 鈥淚n two crackdowns, in 2014 and 2017, Venezuelan security forces committed systematic abuses against critics, including torture, Human Rights Watch research shows. They detained more than 5,400 people between April and July 2017. Members of the security forces have beaten detainees severely and tortured them with electric shocks, asphyxiation, sexual assault, and other brutal techniques.鈥
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听That鈥檚 part also of the show. Now, you can compare the human rights record of Venezuela with Argentina or Brazil or any of these countries that are doing鈥攎anipulating the international institutions and using them to attack Venezuela. We are waiting for Michelle Bachelet, who is the high commissioner of human rights of the United Nations, to visit Venezuela. She鈥檚鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Michelle Bachelet, the former president of Chile.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes. She is鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听A torture survivor herself.
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, she is. And she鈥檚 been invited by President Maduro, and we鈥檙e waiting for her to come to Venezuela and to see the situation by herself. Of course, this is part of the warfare against Venezuela. But as I told you, this is going to be part of the past, Amy. These governments, right-wing governments in Latin America, are going to be over鈥攕ome of them this year, some of them next year. And Venezuela is going to be there, at least the revolution鈥
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听How do explain this right-wing wave throughout Latin America, of course, excluding Mexico?
闯翱搁骋贰听础搁搁贰础窜础:听Yes, Mexico, Bolivia, Nicaragua, the Caribbean nations. They have popular governments, as well. But it鈥檚鈥擴ruguay, of course, has a progressive government, as well. But it鈥檚 part of the cycle. You know, it鈥檚 part of the cycles.
But I must say that the United States was focused on the Middle East after 9/11, and they invested all these funds and money. And suddenly, the progressive governments became majority in Latin America. And when they turned their head, they said, 鈥淗ey, what鈥檚 happening here? We have to do something. We have to do a coup d鈥櫭﹖at in Honduras, because this Zelaya is trying to do a progressive government. We have to fund the candidates of the right. We have to鈥濃攕o, they have had success until now.
But the peoples of Latin America are seeing, are witnessing this, and they will change the conditions. They will change, because the peoples have the right to be in power in Latin America.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Jorge Arreaza, Venezuelan foreign minister. He was here in New York to meet with the U.N. secretary-general. He鈥檚 also the former vice president of Venezuela and the son-in-law of the late President Hugo Ch谩vez.